War, Sans Strategy
VP Cheney stands by his statement that the insurgency is "in its last throes". The Bush administration believes that "staying the course" and "we'll stand down when the Iraqi's stand up" are strategies. They're not. They're soundbites and they know it. They have no plan. Bush's exit plan for Iraq is to let the next president take care of it. That's not really a plan either, except that it is a plan to make it not his problem anymore. The Democrats have a strategy for troop withdrawl, but it will never make it out of the Republican controlled senate. We lost another 15 soldiers this week alone in Iraq. Hardly seems like the last throes of anything, if you ask me. Our troops deserve leadership, not soundbites.
Karl Rove has fired up the rumor mill with (paraphrasing)"Democrats familiar pattern with cutting and running". Nevermind that it was Republican president Gerald Ford who withdrew our troops from Vietnam. I wonder how many civilians will research that tidbit on their own instead of just taking that soundbite at face value?
Dean Repeats Call for Iraq Troop Drawdown
Karl Rove has fired up the rumor mill with (paraphrasing)"Democrats familiar pattern with cutting and running". Nevermind that it was Republican president Gerald Ford who withdrew our troops from Vietnam. I wonder how many civilians will research that tidbit on their own instead of just taking that soundbite at face value?
Dean Repeats Call for Iraq Troop Drawdown
posted by Tootsie Farklepants at 10:04 AM
15 Comments:
I find it interesting that liberals don't want us to stay in Iraq but at the same time say we can't win there. Isn't it incumbent upon this administration to finish what it started? Or is an Islamic super-state with Iraq as its capital something you look forward too Tootsie? Vietnam already proved what happens to the "collaborators" if we leave before victory. Is that what you want for the millions of Iraqis that already risked their lives for a new Democracy?
How do you win an occupation?
By not giving up and letting the 2% of the people who are causing the problems to win the fight.
You use occupation as a horrible word. Was it horrible in Germany, Japan from 45-the 60's? You use it as if we are the Nazi's and Iraq is Vechy France. In that context, please remember...it was France......
"How do you win an occupation" is a Murtha talking point...
Your better then him!
Jack
and its about freaking time Kevin you got involved in this conversation here with TF. : ) She loves to argue!
He had some not very nice things to say to you, Jack under "A Liberal Choice" blog entry.
With several different religious sects jockeying for power, there is going to be a period of chaos when we leave, no matter what...this year, next year, in 10 years, 20...there is chaos with us being there and it will be there when we leave. We're imposing our democratic ideals upon them. That wasn't the case in France or WW2 in general. Trying to get them to conform to those ideals by brute force is not letting them work it out for themselves...their freedom, their democracy.
: ) Obviously, I am a dedicated reader of YOURS T.F. to have seen Kevin's "strange" abortion related comments towards me.
Kevin is a "hit and Run" blogger. He places posts and leaves and doenst ever come back to see what anyone has to say about what he said. Like other "people" who post here ( not you ) you cant debate him, he just gets personal, slams and leaves. Kinda like Dumbo and the "mouth breather" statement towards me. Childish use of words. Not debating and not worthly of continuing a debate with.
You argue properly and dont get personal and are smart. You dont like others point of view but you KNOW HOW TO DEBATE. People Like Kevin, Dumbo and others like them refuse to even properly debate or speak logically and SANE with others who disagree with them. Kevin is the reason normal people on the left hate people on the right and people like dumbo are the reason people on the right dislike people on the left. And think some are not very sane too.
Lucky for us, people like THEM are few and far between. 10% of the people cause 90%of the probelms.
$10 bucks kevin never sees this post here about him. Hit and run blogger. He wont come back to your site for a while. Then when he does he will hit each article of yours and just slam you and anyone else and then go away for a few months again. Not a well informed person and certainly not capible of debate. Hit and run or run and hide. And thats coming from a Fellow republican.
But I am a REAL republican.
Jack
I learned a long time ago that with people like Kevin, trying to engage in actual debate is pointless. After much head banging against theoretical brick walls, I stopped. I don't presume to think that I'll ever change someone's stance on an issue. But the hit and run posters like Kev will make unsubtantiated statments and then claim "victory" in the debate, leaving it up to me to prove him right or wrong...leaving the research to me. It's not up to me to back up his statements...that's his baby.
I've seen him do it with his guests on his site. They'll ask for a source for his claim and I've yet to see him do it. He'll say, "prove me wrong and until then I'm right". Screw it. I ain't got that kind of time.
Amen sister. And in regards to your actual Article here, I dont agree with you but I respect your statement that the troopers need leadership not rhetoric. I am cool with that statement.
I think the leadership just doenst want to change course period. Not for Murtha and not for poll numbers or anything. I just think they think they are right and are going to stay the course. Right or wrong. I dont agree with that and think we need to reassess the situation on the ground and take a good look at what the heck is going on there now.
We did what we said we were going to do. Get rid of Sadam, make sure terrorists dont get WMD ( none left for them to get ) and get a government going. We did all that so in my personal humble opinion, lets move our troops out to the desert bases and see what the Iraqi's can do for themselves now. If it starts to turn bad, we just back in easily. But lets face it. It is NOW their freaking turn to turn to get their country headed in the right direction.
You can lead a horse to water......
Jack
I think it is clear by now that the Iraqi people, sans the terrorists, do not see us as occupiers. I sight 3 successful elections and a full, democratically elected government as signs that Iraqis are getting on with the business of making a new country.
But a direct answer to your question would be: How did they do it in Gernamy and Japan, post World War II?
So much for hit and run huh Jackie?
Ah ha, well I owe you $10 bucks T.F and now we all know why poor little kevin went ballistic on his "web site" now dont we.
He can dish out all the horrible things to people he wants but the minute someone responds to him he goes crying back to his own blog and writes poison and lies about that person.
You give Good normal people a bad name and you should have your meds adjusted fast before you hurt yourself.
Im sorry I was ever nice to you. Your a hateful vile person. Just like everyone told me you where.
Jack
Kevin~ so, in your opinion, any Iraqi citizen who DOES consider us occupiers, is a terrorist?
I measure "success" as the fewest additional dead bodies racked up by this fiasco. Whenever we leave, we'll declare victory, whether it's tomorrow or a decade from now. Simple as that.
And if the word "victory" comes out of O'Reilly and Hugh Hewitt, Kevin will believe it regardless of how well the Iraqi government is working.
(However, in the short term we won't be leaving no matter how many elections they hold. Bush is taking his old business plan: fail without admitting it, and let his successor bail the company out)
I find it interesting that liberals don't want us to stay in Iraq but at the same time say we can't win there.
That is called "consistency." (Or "sanity," if you like.) I find it interesting, from a clinical perspective, that there is no measure of peace nor weight of losses that can convince Cons like Kevin to say "we have done all we can here."
Isn't it incumbent upon this administration to finish what it started?
No, actually. Two teaspoons of failure is enough for me. You can put the ten-pound bag back in the cabinet. By the way, once we're done in Iraq, I heard that Saddam hid the WMDs in the Social Security Trust Fund, I can't wait to see what that occupation looks like. (I can hear it now -- "some liberals are supporting the trust fund getting a lock box - what good reason could the RetiroFascists ever have for getting a lock box, if they didn't have something to hide?")
Or is an Islamic super-state with Iraq as its capital something you look forward too Tootsie?
You are leaving out the part of the equation where we overthrew the secular dictator and installed an America-hostile, Iran-friendly religious government. Not that it wound up bad for most people (except the 50% of the country who are women, and the 40% who are not Shia), but that whole "pan-Islamic state" concept was made WAY more likely by our actions.
Vietnam already proved what happens to the "collaborators" if we leave before victory. Is that what you want for the millions of Iraqis that already risked their lives for a new Democracy?
Interesting time to start caring about the Iraqis, after slaughtering 60,000 of them. Imagine the social impact of 300 September 11ths on a nation. Suffice to say, we don't have too many "collaborators" at this point -- "kill the Americans" is more or less the top campaign slogan for those who seek public office.
Word.
Jack~ Looks like Kevin removed his entry about you from his site.
Did you have a change of heart Kevin? Or were ya not diggin' the debate that ensued?
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